June 28, 2006

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Grades Are Out (At Georgetown Law)

Continuing the tradition that I started last semester, I am posting my grades publicly, in protest of the vague and disingenuous ways people discuss grades in law school. They say, "So, how did you do?" and "Are you happy with your grades? What were you expecting?" and "What did you think of your grades?" But what they really mean is, "What grades did you get in each class, and what is your overall GPA? Did you do better than me or worse than me in each class, and by how much? Is your cumulative GPA higher or lower than mine, and if it's higher, what else do I have that sets me above you in a hiring process?"

So in protest of that whole system where people are too shy to ask directly, and too modest/ashamed to answer directly, I am posting my grades, in the hopes of fostering openness, directness, and straightforward questions. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know someone's grades. There is nothing wrong with asking them directly. And there is nothing wrong with refusing directly. But let's dispense with the veiled questions.

Criminal Procedure: A-
Constitutional Law: B+
Legal Research & Writing: B
Property: B+
Economic Justice: A
Cumulative GPA: 3.28

Analysis:

I did every bit of the reading for Property, even did some outside reading just because I was interested, mostly paid attention in class and participated in class discussions, and yet only got a B+. That's a bit disappointing. On the other hand, I didn't read a single page of Crim Pro since the second day of class, and got an A-, so I'm elated about that. LRW isn't surprising, though I had hoped it would be higher. Con Law I'm pleasantly surprised about since, again, I did very little reading for it. And Economic Justice, I did most of the reading, and really dug into the issues and spent time considering them, but didn't really study for the exam, so I'm very happy about that. And there you go.

Posted at June 28, 2006 4:40 PM | Comments (20)


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WOW! You're blog is awesome first off. The bright colors on the black is money! Totally makes me wanna upgrade mine.

Ok, so about your grades. First, cute that your school has +/-
Mine, the second college I am finishing up with, doesn't but is about to start that. Luckily, I'll be outta there and off to the teaching world!

What school do you go to?

And your grades are fine. I'd be happy with them. I mean, I didn't get a 4.0 and I was certainly pissed, but I mean yours is nothing to sneeze at!

Feel free to visit me as I'll be linking you. I gotta stay motivated to upgrade my blog like yours =)

Posted by: B at June 28, 2006 10:39 PM


I go to Georgetown Law. I just added that to the title of the post for people coming from outside, because DCBlogs linked me.

Yeah, I'm happy with the grades. I'm in the top half of the class. And I remain positive that I am in the top 1% of my class in the Effort:GPA ratio.

Having designed my girlfriend's blogspot template, I can say that it is much less frustrating when you host your own blog and have complete control over all aspects of the content. I'm really into the white text on black background, as is evidenced by other sites I have designed or am designing.

Posted by: David Barzelay at June 29, 2006 2:57 AM


I still say that--at least coming from me--those questions aren't disengenuous at all. I'm trying to pursue a different career path than most, so I'm not really in direct competition with most of our class. For me, there's just a legitimate concern that my friends aren't suicidal from bad grades or anything. Beyond that, I really don't need/care to know the specifics. Seriously.

Posted by: Aaron at June 29, 2006 3:08 AM


Congrats, David! It's nice to know that law school grades are still as arbitrary and unrelated to effort as they were when I was a student. ;-)

Posted by: bettyjoan at June 29, 2006 9:06 AM


I got straight F's one semester.

Posted by: Phil at June 29, 2006 10:11 AM


I have come to the conclusion that, in my own experience at least, effort is pointless. Since I earned decent grades last semester without much effort at all, I decided to see if I could do better if I tried harder in the spring. I ended up doing worse, getting pretty much straight B's this time around and getting nudged slightly below the middle of the curve. So I think from now on I'm just gonna coast like I did first semester; it worked a lot better for me.

Posted by: Nuf at June 29, 2006 12:27 PM


This semester I got an A in Making Money and an A+ in Being Bored. All around, pretty good, but I was only taking two classes. :P

Posted by: daniel at June 29, 2006 12:31 PM


Cockpunch!

Posted by: bubbachuck at June 29, 2006 3:44 PM


I love it when people cockpunch me on my blog. I only wish it happened more often in real life.

Posted by: David Barzelay at June 29, 2006 3:50 PM


Seeing as how WaPo Express has referenced your blog before, and how committed you are to this ideal of open source grades, I think WaPo should publish your grades every semester in a section called "David Barzelay's Grades." They should also mention that I came up with that idea.

Posted by: Chris Santoro at June 29, 2006 6:29 PM


Hey, you're welcome for the cockpunch. I share in your desire that you receive many, many more cockpunches in real life. Your recent behavior on the lawdems mailing list has probably increased the chances of an upsurge in cockpunching significantly, I'd guess.

On a more civil note, has it ever occurred to you that anyone who really cared what your grades were would probably overcome the law school mores against asking and just ask--and that everyone else just thinks you're an even bigger asshole than they previously gave you credit for for posting them on your blog? If that thought hasn't crossed your mind, maybe it's time you stop and reevaluate things, especially since nobody believes for a second you'd be posting them if they weren't good.

Posted by: bubbachuck at June 29, 2006 9:19 PM


Well, Chris, looks like the Express took you up on your idea (page 32). Now all of D.C. knows my GPA.

As Gabe pointed out to me, I am in the top 10% of published GPAs.

Sadly, I am not in the top 10% of unpublished GPAs.

Posted by: David Barzelay at June 29, 2006 9:24 PM


Well, bubba, they weren't so good last time I posted them. Last time, they were, I think, in the bottom third of the class. This time they were right in the middle of the class. Hardly the shining academic marks you make them out to be.

And frankly, I think it's sad that mores exist against asking direct questions in the first place. I think we should all recognize that our curiosity and desire to compare ourselves to others and compete is natural, as well as productive. In fact, those two things are a large part of why humanity progresses. I hope that my openness with my grades breaks down those mores just a little bit. And you can be certain that I'll keep posting them, even if they go down significantly.

And yeah, I tend to go a bit overboard sometimes, and cross over into asshole territory--especially when I'm trying to make people laugh. Sometimes I'm not that great about being clear that I am joking, and when it fails to go over well, then I'm usually pretty good about apologizing. But I'm always open and honest, and I always take responsibility for what I write. I appreciate the same from others--even commenters.

Posted by: David Barzelay at June 29, 2006 9:50 PM



Damn, too bad they didnt take up my idea of mentioning that that was my idea. Guess thats why I read the NY Times.

Posted by: Chris Santoro at July 1, 2006 1:05 AM


What's cockpunch? Sorry to be dense.

Posted by: Pagan Marbury at July 2, 2006 6:10 PM


I'm not entirely sure what a "cockpunch" is, but presumably it's when someone punches someone else... in the cock. People presumably do this for pleasure or pain.

Posted by: David Barzelay at July 2, 2006 6:15 PM


one thing that bothers me more than getting a grade lower than what i think i deserve is listening to the same students repeatedly comment on how little, if any, effort they make, no matter whether their grade is higher or lower than mine. Some of us just are not coasters, for whatever reasons.

Posted by: Karen at August 15, 2006 1:21 AM


Why does that bother you?

Posted by: David Barzelay at August 15, 2006 1:39 AM


Hi,

I am seeking advice for law school entry. G-town happens to be my first choice. I really, really want to attend Georgetown because of it's academic program, reputation and location but my GPA isn't stellar and I have yet to take the lsat (dec or if i have to again in feb '07). I think people don't want to share their gpa's because, at least in my case, i feel they will judge me and think I'm "dumb" if it's low. The fact of the matter is, it may be reflective of challenging courses one has taken. I attended NYU and at first took the "I wand to be a doctor" path. I took hard sciences like Organic chemistry and didn't do so well while at the same time taking intermediate Economics courses that were difficult for me as a first year student at NYU. I took on way too much at once and ended up with a 3.26/4.00 gpa which isn't great. This insecurity stopped me from applying for the past 2 years of my life because I thought, what's the point? If I don't have a great gpa I should just drop it all together but I've realized that I should still shoot for it because in the end, this is what I want to do with my life. I want to practice law and affect real change in people's lives through the legal system. Since i've graduated, i've worked for 2 non-profits and in the corporate sector too and am now a producer at a major online newspaper. I also am a minority; i'm of pakistani descent and i am a female muslim woman. I do have other experiences worth mentioning including involvment in a successful online startup company and am currently on my disctrict's committee of minotiry affairs that reports to the state supreme court. I could on..

In any case, I'd really appreciate any advice on your part since you went through this process and are in my top school of choice. Do at least sound like someone who has a shot at getting into Georgetown (of course i'd have to well on the lsat)?

thanks

Posted by: sarah at November 9, 2006 1:24 PM

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